How can God standby and allow all this suffering to happen? Why doesn't God intervene and do something about it? Two questions I've been asked many times, and two I've certainly not been immune from asking myself, especially in situations of suffering and pain.
I've noticed I rarely ask those questions now, not because I'm insensitive, but because I think my image of God has changed. Suffering and the Divine response to it, will always be a mystery to us, but our image of God will go a long way in helping us to deal with this mystery.
In Part 1 of the study we looked at the image of an external God "out there" or "up there" somewhere who works from the outside "on," and the one of God being "within" and working "through," the image Process Theology holds. I venture to say, it is the latter which enables us to find greater comfort and meaning in the sufferings of life. Why is this so?
There's always a distance between the world and the external God "out there" or "up there." God is called upon to intervene. God comes from "out there" in to the situation and can therefore also leave that situation. This distance between God and ourselves becomes deeply problematic. It gives birth to a faith fraught with uncertainty and disturbing questions about suffering - why doesn't God come and do something about it? Why won't God intervene? Those are questions which naturally flow from a perception of God "out there" - "O God you're standing there watching, apart from it all, why don't you get involved and do something about it?"
But what if God is "within" already sharing in it, feeling it and working with it? What if God is that life-giving presence permeating us all, holding us all together and who also suffers the pain and anguish as that union is fractured and broken. A great theologian, Jurgen Moltman, spoke at length of the God who suffers with us, who not only suffers, but who with love beyond our comprehension, works to restore, in other words, the God of Process Theology.
Two things about such an image of God. First, we can never say, "God, why don't you do something about it?" Second, because God is within it all, already at work through us and everything else, we take responsibility, and instead of asking where God is, we allow ourselves to become channels of Divine love and restoration in whatever suffering circumstance it may be. This for me is a far better way and I suspect it's the reason why I don't ask that question so much any more.
What about the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus within the framework of this image of God? Well, our perception of God in the suffering of Jesus has too often been one of distance between God and Jesus. It's as if God stands by and watches Jesus suffer crucifixion and death. You even hear some people say, especially in fundamentalist circles, that God turned God's face away from Jesus as Jesus took on the sin of the world. God abandoned him in the darkness he was experiencing.
Nothing can be more far from the truth. The Divine in Jesus, and Jesus in the Divine, suffer the pain and the anguish of the crucifixion. You can't separate them. In Jesus God and humanity, by virtue of the deep union and "inness" of the two, together feel the pain , the anguish and the darkness. When Jesus cries out "forgive them" that is the cry of God as well, in Jesus.
The resurrection, on the other hand, is the symbol of the Divine at work, not standing on the outside looking at or in, but in the midst of that terrible suffering and death, in it, feeling it, experiencing it, bringing about restoration and life. Therein lies our hope in the heat of all suffering and pain. Process Theology holds to this understanding and that's what makes it so relevant today.
NB Here are some texts which will help us grasp this image of God within: Luke 17:20-21, John 17:20-23, Acts 17:27-28. There are many more. I also found Allan's comment very interesting and valuable in the last study. If you'd like to read it again, scroll down to Part 3 and click comments and look for Allan.
I've noticed I rarely ask those questions now, not because I'm insensitive, but because I think my image of God has changed. Suffering and the Divine response to it, will always be a mystery to us, but our image of God will go a long way in helping us to deal with this mystery.
In Part 1 of the study we looked at the image of an external God "out there" or "up there" somewhere who works from the outside "on," and the one of God being "within" and working "through," the image Process Theology holds. I venture to say, it is the latter which enables us to find greater comfort and meaning in the sufferings of life. Why is this so?
There's always a distance between the world and the external God "out there" or "up there." God is called upon to intervene. God comes from "out there" in to the situation and can therefore also leave that situation. This distance between God and ourselves becomes deeply problematic. It gives birth to a faith fraught with uncertainty and disturbing questions about suffering - why doesn't God come and do something about it? Why won't God intervene? Those are questions which naturally flow from a perception of God "out there" - "O God you're standing there watching, apart from it all, why don't you get involved and do something about it?"
But what if God is "within" already sharing in it, feeling it and working with it? What if God is that life-giving presence permeating us all, holding us all together and who also suffers the pain and anguish as that union is fractured and broken. A great theologian, Jurgen Moltman, spoke at length of the God who suffers with us, who not only suffers, but who with love beyond our comprehension, works to restore, in other words, the God of Process Theology.
Two things about such an image of God. First, we can never say, "God, why don't you do something about it?" Second, because God is within it all, already at work through us and everything else, we take responsibility, and instead of asking where God is, we allow ourselves to become channels of Divine love and restoration in whatever suffering circumstance it may be. This for me is a far better way and I suspect it's the reason why I don't ask that question so much any more.
What about the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus within the framework of this image of God? Well, our perception of God in the suffering of Jesus has too often been one of distance between God and Jesus. It's as if God stands by and watches Jesus suffer crucifixion and death. You even hear some people say, especially in fundamentalist circles, that God turned God's face away from Jesus as Jesus took on the sin of the world. God abandoned him in the darkness he was experiencing.
Nothing can be more far from the truth. The Divine in Jesus, and Jesus in the Divine, suffer the pain and the anguish of the crucifixion. You can't separate them. In Jesus God and humanity, by virtue of the deep union and "inness" of the two, together feel the pain , the anguish and the darkness. When Jesus cries out "forgive them" that is the cry of God as well, in Jesus.
The resurrection, on the other hand, is the symbol of the Divine at work, not standing on the outside looking at or in, but in the midst of that terrible suffering and death, in it, feeling it, experiencing it, bringing about restoration and life. Therein lies our hope in the heat of all suffering and pain. Process Theology holds to this understanding and that's what makes it so relevant today.
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NB Here are some texts which will help us grasp this image of God within: Luke 17:20-21, John 17:20-23, Acts 17:27-28. There are many more. I also found Allan's comment very interesting and valuable in the last study. If you'd like to read it again, scroll down to Part 3 and click comments and look for Allan.
...as i've said before,at times while pondering this teaching i get something of a fleeting glimpe or flash of understanding of this totally 'new' concept (Process)..like Allan,im sure there IS something here..but i keep defaulting back to my previous fundamentalist indoctrination..it's just not 'sticking' yet..im finding its very difficult to reset my way of thinking..
ReplyDeleteI just really enjoy your openness. The fact that you're prepared to look at it and think about it is in itself a wonderful thing. Sure, it may not be for you, and that's fine. That'll probably be the case for others as well, and for them that's also okay, but it's your openness that I again want to affirm. Thank you for that, and for your words that always have an integrity about them.
DeleteEverytime I read this blog I want to start my comment with "I am so sick ..." because I am so sick of the same old questions, and the same old answers. Thank you for giving me something different. I am sitting with this concept of the God Within, and that is making me see life, and therefore suffering in a new light. I am almost sighing a sigh of relief, that I don't have to defend this old man in the clouds kind of god any more, that I don't have to be tired of the same old answer. This is really something for me to get my thinking cap around. I particularly warm to the concept of Jesus and God both being together in the crucifixion. That means that God was with 6 million Jews, and that He is with all the fly blown starving children on TV, and in a strange way, feeling my middle aged pain too. OK, before you get sick and tired of me .... Pauline
ReplyDeletePauline, we could never get sick and tired of you. Your sharing always has a spark in it, insightful and honest. Thanks.
DeleteI wanted to say I thought that analogy of a colouring in book was spot on. For most of my Christian walk I felt God was waiting with his wooden spoon to rap me over the knuckles if I went out of the line.(This is the path, Walk ye in it, OR ELSE). Now I,m more like our grandchildren. They colour in with all the “wrong” colours, and lines mean nothing to them. But they know when they present their best efforts to us we are going to say “well done, You are getting better all the time”
ReplyDeleteThankyou again. I,m enjoying this a lot.
Love your illustration of the grandchildren. Glad you're enjoying the study.
DeleteThanks again Don,
ReplyDeleteI really want to make an appeal for us to begin imagining a worldview where there is no dualism. If Paul, in one of his (all to few) flashes of brilliance, get's it with Acts 17:28 "For 'In him we live and move and have our being' : then THERE IS ONLY GOD. This is, I believe, the ultimate monotheism. True we struggle with the shadow nature of this reality when we are afflicted by what does not suit what Keating calls "our programmes for happiness" but we need to realise that it is our problem of comprehension and not God's problem of Being God. Usually the suffering is our ego not wanting things to be the way they are.
Thanks Peter.I can't agree more. I don't think we would ever be able to measure the harm done by dualistic thought. It's so ingrained particularly in Christian spirituality that it's hard for people to move out of it. The concept for many is so hard to grasp, yet simple. You're right, it is a problem of comprehension.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure whether you got my Facebook message to you on some of Cupitt's thoughts. Would love to hear how you feel about it.
Is it enough to tell someone who is deeply suffering that there is a God who is suffering with you and feeling your pain? Not unless there has been a radical change in the image of God as you point out.
ReplyDeleteIt’s sad that the most incredible message to humanity about suffering seen through the life and death of Jesus has been largely lost. In that God does not remove our circumstances or times of darkness, but transforms them…and that darkness is somehow a necessary process to reaching the light. The message is there from the beginning isn’t it…God creating order out of chaos.
Like you and others, I can no longer put my hope in a God who dwells outside of the system and every now and then jumps in to save, heal etc. some, but not others (which makes god not omnipotent anyway) but I can put my hope in a God who is so relational, so loving and so connected to the process I call ‘my life.'
Thanks Don…I would love to hear your thoughts on prayer and process theology…
"Is it enough to tell someone who is deeply suffering that there is a God who is suffering with you and feeling your pain? Not unless there has been a radical change in the image of God as you point out."
ReplyDeleteThis is an immense struggle for me, Lyn.If this has not become part of the person's experience, then to tell that person something like this will, I agree, come across as deeply insensitive. If it is part of the person's experience then the words and the essence behind those words in both the person and you will speak and connect deeply. So, I think, the context has to be carefully and sensitively discerned. There's a lot of wisdom and compassion in the words, "You meet people where they are."
"Darkness is a necessary process to reaching the light." As Peter says, dualistic thinking cannot go there. I agree with you, but people struggle with this, I remember struggling with it. How do you begin to go down that road when you've been taught all your life to deny the darkness. It's a hard one.
There will be a post on prayer, although I am also struggling with this. So I can't promise any light. You would probably be for more adept than me in this.
Thanks for your comment - good to talk.
Useful thoughts Lyn and Don.
ReplyDeleteAccepting monism and non-duality has been very helpful. I no longer speak in grief work of God taking life, but rather speak of God receiving life back into Godself.
I know this is Gnosticism so let me own up. I think we were sold a crock in Sys Theology 101 when they (the good ol' boys) worked SO hard to tell us that Gnosticism was heresy.
I have been looking at it again through the lens of Alchemy and it isn't as evil and incorrect as we were taught.
So Don here we beg the question as this "Process" unfolds is it linear or circular? I'm for circular ie TS Elliot coming to the place we have been before and seeing for the first time.
My second "heretical" question whilst I am out on this limb, "Can we bear the thought that even God has a shadow?" If we can, we might have a door from this hall of self-referencing mirrors.
...Father Stephen Freeman@wordpress.com has written some interesting thoughts from the Orthodox perspective on Non-Duality and what he calls the misconception of a 2 story Universe...i find myself gradually easing/advancing into the fullness of the Non-duality perspective and i somewhat agree with your views about Gnosticism.."I have been looking at it again through the lens of Alchemy"..i get it..me,its more Indiana Jones like :)
Delete"Receiving life back in to Godself." I warm to this, Peter. For too long death has been looked upon as an enemy and we have denied it, pushed it aside as if it's this unnatural thing that we have to fight against at all costs. The results of this attitude have been devastating, without going into them all. Death seems to be far more acceptable when a life falls away naturally with age. But when death intrudes and tragically removes a life, it's far easier to see it as an enemy. Yet even in such a case your words ring true. I'm reminded of a young Jesus dying tragically on a cross, yet saying - "In to your hands I commend my spirit." Now that's "receiving life back in to Godself" if ever there was, even under the most tragic circumstances.
DeletePeter, for me it's the spiral. It integrates both the linear and circle.
Thanks Anon, for the Fr Stephen Freeman link. Will certainly go to it. I like your description of "gradually easing/advancing" in to non-duality. Most people I know who are making this journey speak of it in this way. Not easy to unlearn duality's influence over us. I've often wondered if duality is not a necessary step to differentiate, but then there has to be a coming back in our differentiation to the union of non-duality.
Delete"I've often wondered if duality is not a necessary step to differentiate, but then there has to be a coming back in our differentiation to the union of non-duality."
Delete"In to your hands I commend my spirit." Now that's "receiving life back in to Godself"
...Flawless Don ...i want to be like you when i grow up :)
lol. You really don't - I'm too full of.... Thanks. Certainly is receiving life back in to Godself.
DeleteIt's almost as if we are asking the wrong questions..."Why does God allow suffering?"...based on what I have learnt perhaps there is no ALLOW - it's not as though God is some computer virus scan that filters certain files but not others - and either allows suffering or does not allow it.
ReplyDeleteI am still concerned that we live in a random world. Tectonic activity, for example, controls global C02 levels and creates mountains - without which human life would not be as it is. However human life is also damaged because of tectonic activity. To me it seems as though it is good that God acts from within creation to sustain life eg: tectonic activity - but I am struggling to see beyond the impersonal life force. What part of God/creation/life (other than human empathy) cares about an individual eg: when one's house is washed away by a mudslide?
I find I quite enjoy the intellectual exercise of trying to get to grips with process theology. Similar to Anonymous I find it quite hard to "reset" what I emotionally feel even if it rationally makes sense. At the end of the day we are brought up on superhero movies where the good guy always wins and the hero always saves the day...I think deep down I wish God was more like that everyday (despite that I can construct a mental argument of another point of view.)
.."but I am struggling to see beyond the impersonal life force"..yeah,me too Christine..this stretching and expanding IS intellectually tiresome..for me it requires extensive time in study and contemplation..but this time *IM* the one who will figure out and decide what i will believe..NO MORE going along to get along!
Delete"No more going along to get along." I think that's marvellous. Really admire your stand. Just to say that Process theology's perception of God is deeply personal, but not in over-simplistic terms.
DeleteA lot to think about here, Christine. Hope others would take up some of your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteThank you Christine for a comment that reflects my feelings. I also struggle with the concept that we are individually more important than the creation as a whole. Since all life on earth is made with the same DNA we are all part of the same creation. Yet many species are simply food for other species, and their efforts to avoid this has driven evolution to ecologically stable populations. Nature is quite wasteful and many more seeds and embryos are produced than are ever needed. The main driver seems to be to keep the populations stocked and the species robust. This means that there will be suffering amongst the excess individuals. Are we humans really governed by other rules? We would certainly like to be and a belief in a personal God within us is very comforting.
ReplyDeletePerhaps we need to ask "What is suffering?" Is it simply a human consequence of experiencing pain? Pain serves us well during our whole healthy lives, ensuring that we avoid situations that would injure our bodies. But at the end of life pain becomes suffering which invades our whole existence, yet is transitory and hopefully just a stepping stone to a much greater experience. When we blame God for ignoring suffering we are assuming that our comfort during our earthly existence is as important to Him as it is to us. His refusal to intervene in human suffering says otherwise.
Rolf, just to say that Process theology takes very seriously the interdependence of all life and attaches deep significance to both our individuality and collectivity. In fact it counters that rather inflated "Christian" idea that human beings are somehow above nature dominating and subduing it. The Genesis passage which describes this has been interpreted all out of proportion. We've actually created an aberration out of it and are paying the price for the mechanistic and soulless view of nature it has created.
DeleteI wonder to what extent blaming God for ignoring our suffering flows out of our need to always want to escape it. When it is seen to be part of life, and I'm not saying it mustn't be challenged and alleviated, there is no need to blame, only the need to be infused with the strength to deal with it and experience the transformation that comes when we do.
Don, may I respond very briefly to Peter’s mention of the shadow side of God? This is something I have been struggling to get my mind around for a while. I can go there, because I don’t believe the shadow is all bad or destructive, but contains many constructive and positive qualities.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that we have become consumed with opposites, good and bad, heaven and earth, light and shadow etc, (dualism again) but actually isn’t it where opposites reconcile or overlap that we find something closer to wholeness.
T.S. Elliot wrote, ‘the fire and the rose are one,’ in other words, the fire of transformation and the flower of rebirth are one and the same. What does that say to us about suffering? Maybe it takes the poet in each of us to grasp this concept, which is so difficult to approach through reason alone.
Hope this makes sense…its difficult isn’t it?
Thanks Lyn. It certainly makes sense. I'd love to hear how others feel about your words.
ReplyDeleteI am overwhelmed by what feels like recognition, yet is a whole new direction, because I can't claim to have thought about all of this. I'm staying with it for as long as it takes! I am so excited about the thought I had recently: "Lord, because you are, I am.....and hey..(huge realization),I have your Name!!!" This was mind blowing for me, Don.
ReplyDeleteSo glad you're sticking with it, Katy. A sense of newness is a wonderful thing. I celebrate with you that marvellous insight. Thanks for sharing
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